In this episode, Steve Donai sits down with Julian McKean, founder of ProHealth Recruitment, to talk about the rapid rise of behavioral health startups and the people behind them. Whether it’s a new outpatient program funded by outside investors or a clinician opening their first facility, every startup faces the same early challenge: how do you staff and scale when the clock is ticking and the revenue hasn’t started flowing?
Steve and Julian dive into what founders get wrong about building treatment teams, the key roles every program needs from day one, and how recruitment is more than just filling a seat—it’s about placing the right leader who can shape your culture and growth. They also explore what makes this industry unique, how relationships drive referrals, and why investing early in a few foundational hires pays off over time.
If you’re an operator, investor, or aspiring founder in behavioral health, this episode is packed with insight on how to build a strong foundation from day one.
Transcript of the episode:
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Steve Donai: hey? Appreciate everyone joining us again today. Today I have a long time, friend, a partner from this field. I mean, we’ve known each other. What? 8, 9, 10 years now, at this point Julian Mckean, with Prohealth recruitment. So Julian, welcome to the pod
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: It’s a pleasure, Steve. I thank you for having us and looking forward to really kicking this off and talk about all the challenges, all the things that we’re overcoming in our industry from a recruitment perspective, but
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: been quite a ride past 8 years
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Steve Donai: Yeah, tell me about that. You and I started talking long time ago, I think back when I was still in the field even, or might have just been getting out of the field. What have you seen? Change for the the industry, outreach, or any any other position
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: Yeah, it’s a good question, you know, I think, in the last. And just to bring it back even further, Steve, I think I actually tried to recruit you about 9 years ago wasn’t quite successful. But you know you certainly worked a good route. And
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: look where you are now. But we’ve seen a lot of change, you know. It’s it’s been quite an adventure in the last 8 9 years where I’ve exclusively recruited in this industry. I think it’s now becoming a lot more professional. I think you’re seeing a lot of startups that we’re working with all over the cross of the country. So it’s it’s ever so evolving every day, and we can certainly talk about the minutiae and little details that we’re seeing on our end. But
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: we’re excited. I think there’s a lot of good change out there
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Steve Donai: Yeah, I think one of the things I’ve noticed more so over the last. I don’t know. Maybe year 2 is investors from outside the space not necessarily private equity or or Vc. But someone who’s successful maybe nursing homes, real estate, other healthcare practices something, some kind of aligns a little bit coming to the space and opening up in particular outpatient programs. But we see some some inpatients as well.
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Steve Donai: And starting from scratch, I see a lot of that I see a lot. I think this has always been the case of people who have been in the space for a while and want to open up their own programs. My worked in outreach or been a clinical director and then starting their own program. But both have the same problem off the jump is, how do you staff a full treatment center
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Steve Donai: while you’re earning no money yet, and you have your licensing your credentialing. You’re buying chairs. You’re renting buildings. How do you work with folks that are doing that? How do you consult with them and and say, this is the the path to your biggest success. I know that I have some of my thoughts on the outreach marketing admission side of things. But where do you typically begin with them?
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: Yeah, so that’s a great question. And I would say, right now, about 20 to 30% of our business are these small operators, these new investors that are coming to the business that really don’t have the background of behavioral mental health care. And maybe it’s real estate or a lot of coming out of assisted living and hospice space. So they approach us kind of twofold. We’re linked up with a lot of different consulting firms that will bring us in and say, Hey, you know we have this client that is looking to open up a facility. And
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: you know, let’s just say Springfield, Massachusetts. They don’t have the experience. They’re going to open up an Iop, a Php and a, you know, outpatient program.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: They need 3 things. And those 3 things really consist of. You know your clinical director that sometimes will act as your initial executive director off the bat, and then, of course, maybe, a therapist or clinician that will tie in sometimes. A lot of it is that clinical director wearing multiple hats, and of course, carrying the Caseload initially. But they really need a director of business development.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: I say director of business development. But it’s a true Bd role. So that’s really the 2 3 positions that I think are crucial to get those things off the ground. But we’re doing a lot of it. And you know, although the owner operator may not have the experience, they will typically rely heavily on. You know that executive director, that clinical director, to come in.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: So when you recruit for those roles, it’s, you know.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: Yes, we can find a very qualified clinical director, Ed. That, you know, has been there proven themselves. But most of the time you have to find that tough skin mentality. Someone that knows how to work. Startup, you know, knows how to get involved in a new program that really just isn’t self sufficient? Right? So they’re wearing many hats, and it goes same thing for your Bd person and your clinical director. You know it’s not going to be your true Bd, it’s you’re going to go out. And you’re representing that company or the image of the company. So
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: yes, we do a lot of it. But I think ultimately it’s it’s a different type of profile that we look for when we recruit
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Steve Donai: Yeah. And and I didn’t think about it on the Bd side of things. Of of course.
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Steve Donai: Director Bd, I think, is the go-to title. The behaviors of that definitely we chat about. But the face of the program in the community is something that is is often forgot by a lot of these investors owners right like you.
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Steve Donai: and and for good reason, you know, I think you come from like dental or other industries like that. I don’t know how strong the face of a dental practice is in a community right? That might not be as as important as what we do, but being as deeply relationship based and
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Steve Donai: and trust base as behavioral health is in particular, having a strong DVD. In the field, who is representing it, explaining the culture properly doing things ethically, and also able to generate revenue while working in an environment that is
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Steve Donai: somewhat nebulous as a startup often is often sideways or lacking systems or things that they need to have.
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Steve Donai: And as a as a you know, when I worked with some of the newer investors, you’re not going to find a person who can do it all
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Steve Donai: for for that role. So you can find someone who’s great in the field. But they might not have ever project managed a Crm. Go, live, or you can have a a Vp Cmo level. But they’re not field and anymore. Right? They’re not. That’s not what they do. That’s not what their strength is. So it’s also, I think, knowing where to outsource and where to to understand. You might have to take an L right now, it’s okay. But have a plan for that. That deficiency or gap down the road.
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Steve Donai: and had that strategic thought versus just tactical, and that’s where I coach. A lot of folks are is, you know, you have to pick your battles when you’re opening. You might not get everything right. But there are certain needs that you should have. And you know we always recommend.
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Steve Donai: You have to have a website off the bat. That is effective. That explains your culture, who you are and leads people to you. You have to have a DVD that is effective and a good communicator, and you know, hide motor and and good worker. And then you have to have some sort of call system to track calls and some sort of Crm to track activities. And you get those 4 things before you open. You’re gonna be in a good place and other things. You can start tackling later
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: Yeah. And, Steve, you hit a couple of good points there, you know. I think it’s not for everyone, especially when you work in that startup mentality, not everyone is excited about it. And what I kind of preach to my clients is.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: what are you guys doing differently? That every other company is doing right. You know. How are you setting yourself apart? Why would Joe Smith from Xyz Company be attracted to joining you as a startup versus his stable job that he’s doing. Well, he’s growing. You know
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: what? He’s obviously taking a substantial risk to join you. You know. What are you guys doing differently. So it all encompasses the package. You know whether it’s a higher compensation realm, you know, bonus structure, obviously room for growth.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: So it takes a special person to grow it, you know, again, at the end of the day. It’s it’s not for everyone it needs someone that has
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: having that proven track record of building programs being successful when it comes to Bd.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: you’re essentially the face of the company, you know. It’s a brand new company you have to get out and build relationships and rapport. So
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: you know, everyone’s everyone’s taking a risk to join that startup. But end of the day. It’s if you’re proving yourself. And you’re doing a good job. And you’re okay working that
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: you know small mom and pop with feature plans of growth. Then it’s for you. So it’s it’s a very different role. It’s
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: a lot of what we do right now. So as much as it is finding the right person. It’s also educating our clients on. Hey? This is what you’re looking for. You know, this person may not be not the right fit, because they don’t have the experience building programs getting out, you know, starting a new program. And you know, realizing end of the day that this is a for profit.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: everyone has to be on the same page a lot of times, you know, we’ll come across really good clinical directors, but if they haven’t worked in that for profit arena, it’s a little different when you’re joining a startup. And there’s a strict budget in play
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Steve Donai: Absolutely. And but I’m sure you agree like, I, I love working with these programs who are also looking for a partner and knowledge and and a relationship with us to not just, you know, get people up and running and systems and websites in place, but actually learn and grow into the industry. I find that exciting. I think that’s really fun to see new people join our space with passion and and a desire to to make an impact, and then also are open minded enough and vulnerable enough to say, Hey.
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Steve Donai: I know, Hospice, but I might not know this. Let’s let’s talk our way through this and see how we can become successful. That that’s fun. I enjoy that
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: So. So one of the things I really take pride in is is when you you know, I work. I’ve been working with startups now, for
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: majority of you know, past 3 or 4 years where I really started seeing it take off. And now, when I look back at some of these clients that I have that are, you know, Massachusetts, Ohio, Indiana, where they started this very small Php, Iop level. And now they’re multi, you know, multi-state. They have multiple locations. It just takes a sense of pride to say, Hey, wow! You guys were.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: you know, just a brand new player in the field. And now look at you guys, you’re opening up your 6, th 7th facility. So, looking back, and then you look at the people that you put in play that 1st they were clinical director, and now they are executive directors of
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: 4 or 5 facilities. It’s it’s it’s rewarding, and I think they they feel it. But again, it’s a lot of trust and risk on their end to see the big picture and the you know, the light end of the tunnel
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Steve Donai: And what I think is really cool is you do this industry long enough. Someone who went to treatment at that facility that you just talked about will then open up their own facility in a few years call you up, and the cycle continues, and that’s that’s really cool. I don’t think you get that a lot of spaces? You kind of get that here, but you don’t get that in much else.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: So so one of the biggest, I would say one of the biggest and best parts of my day is when
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: you have a candidate that
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: maybe you placed in as a clinical director, of course, an Ed back in the day.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: But then, 4 years later, that then, you know, Vp, or, you know, opening up their own facility. And they call you, and they say, Hey, Julian did an excellent job with me in my career path. And now it’s time for me to open my own practice, my own facility. I’ve got the. I’ve got the capital behind us, and let’s go. So I’m starting to see a lot of that. But again, that’s part of building relationships and trust. So it is quite rewarding for us when we have those candidates that are now clients
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Steve Donai: For sure. Well, let’s let’s let’s kind of stay on the top. We we talked a little bit before we started recording
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Steve Donai: about the hiring quality of talent. And so, you know, you think about the startup in particular, and this obviously applies to everyone else. But in this, in this case, I think it’s pretty interesting that
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Steve Donai: we have a startup. You hire these 3 or 4 key roles, and right and over time those 3 or 4 key roles are going to be hiring expanding roles. Right? They’re they’re gonna be leaders. They’re gonna be your future team leader department heads.
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Steve Donai: And so you’re not just hiring. In my opinion, somebody who can do the job. You also need to hire someone who’s going to
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Steve Donai: grow the culture and be that multiplicative sort of force on your team. I’ve always looked at hiring and culture development team building in our space as sort of an arms race. Right? There is a finite amount of great talent, and finding the great talent is exponential on your outcomes right? Having
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Steve Donai: amazing clinicians who all can work together and coordinate and collaborate with each other. You get better outcomes right? Having
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Steve Donai: a outreach team that is excellent, hardworking, open, coachable, enthusiastic. You get more admissions, more revenue, etc. So
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Steve Donai: how do you view that when you’re when you’re doing the job for a program? Who’s saying I need a Xyz employee right now?
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Steve Donai: But you are going through the resumes. You’re going through all the people. And you’re you’re not finding that rock star like, how do you work with the programs on that? And is there a point where you say, Hey.
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Steve Donai: we we do have to do a B plus when we want an A plus. And here’s why. And here’s the cost to your organization. And this is something that I think about way way too often. But I’m sure you see a lot in practice on a daily basis.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: Yeah. So it’s it’s a good question. And it it is something that we do come across often. I think it stems with really the leader. You know the hiring manager in play.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: you know a lot of times when we work with organizations. It’s working with your Ceos or your chief operating officer some of the C-level executives. But then we also do a lot of work with your vps of Hr. Your Charos. What I like to do, and I think what really helps us from a recruitment aspect is understanding the culture.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: You know. What? What is that company like, you know? Let’s meet the hiring manager that will be overseeing this person on a day to day and really understand what they like, and you know what they don’t like, you know what’s not on the job description that’s not listed just to just to kind of get a good feel. But I think ultimately it’s
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: it’s finding the person that.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: you know, and let me even take it a step back. So when we recruit, you know, I don’t go out, and I don’t traditionally post a job waiting for applicants to come to us. I go out and I will headhunt traditionally. So it’s understanding the culture, understanding. The hiring manager, understanding what they like and what they don’t like, and trying to find the best suitable match to fit that role.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: You know I don’t ever talk to a candidate and say, Hey, you know I’ve got this perfect role for you.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: That’s just an assumption. I don’t know what they want. I don’t know where they want to be in 3 to 5 years. I’d like to hear from them. Hey! What makes you happy? What’s going to make you wake up every day with a smile on your face and get excited. You know. Where do you want to be in the next 3 to 5 years? And if those opportunities align with what I have potentially at that, then point, I will present that opportunity. So I think, to answer your question. It’s really understanding your client. Every client is different.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: You know I have really good clients that I’ve been working with for about 5, 6, 7, 8 years, where I’ve put in 30, 40 people. But the reason I’m able to be so successful with them is because I really know what they like. I know what they don’t like. I know what fits. I know what may work in the future, but a lot of times when I present a candidate, there might not even be an open role. It may just be a conversation that I have with that hiring manager that CEO of hey? If you come across this person, let’s chat.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: and a lot of times I. I have those conversations, and I say, you know I don’t have a role for you.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: but I really do believe one of my clients, Xyz, would be
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: really what you’re looking for. You have all the bells and whistle you carry, and possess the same skill set. You have the same, you know, background of where they want to be in the next 3 to 5 years. So it’s really just understanding your client understanding what they want, what they don’t like, and having a good feel for that, and I think if you have that with your client, you can be tremendously successful with finding the right people on their staff
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Steve Donai: I agree, and I think where? Where I come in a lot in these conversations with the executive leadership is.
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Steve Donai: do you have to change who you are to get the people you need right? So do you have to build out systems or cultural changes, or provide different offerings to
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Steve Donai: to these talented people who are expecting right? So like I think, very simple terms, you can say, Hey, if I’m a rock star, rep in the field. I want a Crm that’s functional. And I want a mission team that can close right like, those are 2 very basic things. And and the industry generally generally knows if you’re in the field, and you know these things, you know, who who can do those things and provide those for you, generally speaking, but as an as an owner, you might not see it that way. You might not be as familiar with that. So I think, from our side of things is coaching from either the very basic of
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Steve Donai: in order to attract the top outreach admissions. Talent. You’re gonna have to have these things in place
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Steve Donai: all the way to
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Steve Donai: you’re gonna restructure. How you actually build your outreach teams out right? Are you doing the traditional role of? I’m looking for the book of business rep, and I’m gonna pay him a high salary and hope, or am I gonna have a developmental program? Because I’m large enough organization now? And I can
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Steve Donai: have junior reps and senior reps, and provide new and exciting opportunities for really talented reps who want more challenges, but don’t want to ever be a manager or director, because they’re out there. And those are amazing people to have on your team right? I mean, I know I’ve looked over the career for people with decades of experience who don’t want to be a director, but have so much knowledge and ability and care that they should be sharing with someone they should not be quiet in a corner in a territory somewhere.
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Steve Donai: So for sure, I think I think there’s some different things to look at from the organizational side of things, too, of be who you want to be, to attract the people. You need to have
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Steve Donai: so and then, of course, the roles of maturated. You know. I’m sure you’ve seen the maturation maturation of outreach behaviors, activities and and what treatment centers want to hire in that role
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: Yeah. And you know, just I want to bring it back for a sec, because you did touch on something that I want to comment on is that you know a lot of times we’ll have clients that will come to us and say, Hey, you know we need a good
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: business development, or you know, person that is, you know, has a good book of business, you know, can obviously, you know, help us with with referrals and bring in.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: You know, good solid accounts. In the 1st thing I look at as well. Let’s look at who is overseeing this right? And and do you have a director in play a lot of times. They don’t. It’s kind of I don’t want to say free for all, but it’s it’s kind of out there. Maybe the sales force isn’t really set up, and you know, and things are not documented properly. So the 1st thing I look and an example is, I have a client in
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: They’re in Massachusetts.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: won’t name the company, but they came to me they wanted a Bd person, but the 1st question I asked them is, who’s going to oversee this person? You have a staff of about 5 reps, pretty much in the regional area of the city of Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Connecticut, but they didn’t have a director in play. So I told them about, you know, kind of the nuances. The advantages of having a strong Cmo, essentially.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: And you know, the next thing we did was we went out. We found a Cmo for them, and it’s been just life changing, you know, it changes the whole approach that person had came in. They’ve implemented new strategies, new approach, new ways of documentation metrics, the whole 9 yards. And now they’re about 12 people, but it was because they never had a Cmo essentially in play. They only had maybe a few leaders, and the CEO kind of would step in from time to time.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: But now that they have that strong leader, that strong approach, it’s it’s been, it’s it’s been game changing. So
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: I do believe having the right person in place, especially if you’re a grown company and you’re opening up multiple facilities. You have to have someone in play. You have to have a true director, you know again, a lot of times when you work with startups, you know you’re going to want that director to, you know. Be out there. Be producing, of course. But if you’re a grown company and you have 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 reps you need. You need a true director in play
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Steve Donai: Oh, absolutely. And I don’t even echo that it. It depends on the type of reps you have. I’ve had team structures before where
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Steve Donai: I would have a field based team. But I what I think you would consider a general territory outreach team. You have a market. You cover it. You have that sort of responsibility, and the directors could handle 8 to 12 reps with oversight. Right? You have a a pretty decent scope of control over that. But then other directors would be working with a national accounts team that are calling only on unions or payers or large account hospital systems.
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Steve Donai: No director should be handling 8, 1215 of those reps. Right? You should have a smaller scope. I think that scope there was like 3 or 4 reps because the deal sizes were larger, complex. You have requests for proposals. And so thinking about those sorts of things, and building your directorship, or your Cmo. Or whatever leader you put in place, for that should be really custom and dependent on the actual team structure and the goals you’re hoping to have with that. And
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Steve Donai: it’s I mean, it’s complex work. It’s very thoughtful work for a treatment center owner to say, how do I going to structure this because
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Steve Donai: we’ve seen it successful with treatment centers all across the industry many different ways. So there’s no one blueprint to say, this is the way we’re going to do it. There’s a lot of different ways of handling that. But yeah, I love hearing. I love hearing that. That program wanting to bring in a leader to to take that, because that’s a multiplying behavior. And there is a certain point for every treatment center. We have to go from bootstrapping to scaling. And that’s a that’s a painful point. But it takes extra leaders on hand to do that.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: So another
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: kind of point of of that implementing someone in play is, you know, I think, this particular company. And there’s there’s others that we’ve dealt with that kind of were in the same boat is they didn’t really have any structure in play, right? You know. They had reps. They didn’t really have regional territories, although they were growing. It was kind of a free for all. If you have accounts here that that’s fine, you can, of course, utilize those, and then, if a new rep is coming in.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: you know you. The last thing you want to do is have that rep step in anyone other’s toes, so that Cmo. Was able to come in, put structure in play, define territories, find the system and and track metrics and and performance. So, without having that in play. I just
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: I don’t see a self-sustaining business development team. I really do truly believe that you need to have a good leader in play, and the leader that we were able to provide them is a leader that is, world renowned oversaw 40 50 reps with multi-site facilities, you know.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: 2030 facilities, and it has a very solid, proven record. So it just comes. You have to find the right person. Put them in play. Find the leader. Let that leader run with it and and kind of prove prove their self worth. So
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: that’s that’s, I think, very important for a lot of these startups, especially if you’re growing. And you’re going multi site
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Steve Donai: Awesome. So what are you seeing change wise in the industry? I as the candidate, profile, change as the desire from the outreach or from. I’m sorry from the treatment center leadership change like, what are the
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Steve Donai: the differences that you’re seeing now versus when you and I 1st started talking almost a decade ago, you know, back when I had brown hair, the good old days
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: I’m I’m soon behind you, so I I’ll be there soon, Steve, but
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: you know it’s it’s changed a lot, you know. I guess I can break it up into different sectors. Right? You know, I think, from a clinician standpoint, you know, especially with Covid, right? About 4 or 5 years ago that has really changed the game for you know, clinicians that have wanting to work and have worked to that remote hybrid schedule to now coming back in the office right? And most of our clients, you know, they want someone in the office, you know. Monday through Friday.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: I think a lot of therapists are, or have been used to kind of that remote profile and hybrid schedule where that is definitely becoming a challenge for a lot of these facilities is the challenge of finding a good therapist that can come in the office and wants to work Monday through Friday without having remote schedules. So that’s been a little difficult for a lot of clients where we’ll come in, and we’ll, of course, trying to recruit and headhunt the right clinician.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: You know. I think, in biz development, in in some of the things we spoke on other than that is.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: it’s it’s they’re now. I think it’s emerging, you know. I think the pedigree of the business development has changed over the last few years. Where in the past it’s been a lot of more. Your b 2 b, you know, getting referrals from other facilities. Where now a lot of these, you know, a lot of our clients, a lot of these facilities. They want
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: true business development. Folks that have a proven record. A good, solid book of business, you know, across their region, of course, wherever their territory is. So I think from that standpoint it’s evolving where they want more folks that are really going out there and getting organic leads and getting these accounts, getting these obtaining these clients that are a little different, where your traditional outreach rep back in 2,02016 17,
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: we’re relying highly on, you know. B, 2 B. So it. I think that’s changed a whole lot.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: You know, and I think the industry itself, you know, I think it’s
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: it’s certainly evolved. I’ve seen. I’ve seen a lot of change over the last 7 years. I see a lot of my clients that have been, you know, 4, 5, 6 facilities now bringing in PE, and of course, expanding that route. And that’s changed a lot in the industry. But I’m also seeing a lot of these very specialty track programs. We’re seeing a lot of adolescent mental health, adolescent substance use where we do a lot of work in
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: and very specific kind of niche programs. So I think you’re starting to see that. And you’re starting to see a lot of. And just before how we had touched on a lot of your startups, your Iops, your Php models that are opening up those facilities and then duplicating that but once they’re successful. So
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: I think it’s evolving. I think people are seeing the change. I think they’re adapting, and you know, certainly I think I’m I’m excited for the future, so I think we’ll see what happens here. But we’re
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: we’re gearing towards a good year, and I think, you know, we’ll see what happens the next 2 to 3 years. But I think it can only get better
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Steve Donai: So you bring up an interesting point about the the diversification of outreach right? Where vertical market
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Steve Donai: focus has has evolved or developed, or at least it the intent is there. Right? So I think, speaking directly to the outreach reps, I I want to cover a couple of topics. I think first, st from my perspective.
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Steve Donai: I’ve been asked for decades from team members like, what do I need to do to become a manager, a leader, a Vp like, what steps do I need to take? And from my perspective I always say, you know. 1st and foremost, if you were to coach you, what would you change
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Steve Donai: right if you were the rep? What is it that you were coach about yourself? And that’s, I think, an eye opening moment for a lot of reps to realize. Oh, I should probably go call on hospitals more go call on therapists more
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Steve Donai: but really is, and that’s not necessarily the numbers from it. It’s it’s learning the behavior, it’s learning. How do you call on different vertical markets? Can you communicate with them? Do you? Can you replicate that when you coach other reps. So for me, when I talk to reps who want to have that career trajectory.
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Steve Donai: you gotta do the work you’re gonna assume others can do and put that work in and know how to do it, so that you can help them when you get there. Otherwise it’s not gonna be there.
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Steve Donai: Similarly, when it comes to activities and hitting goals, I always tell people, if you are a if you’re someone who desires that leadership in your career. You have to be 150%, a goal. You have to be working harder than anyone on the team, because
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Steve Donai: you have to expect that from your teammates, right like you have to be able to show and be there. So I think that for me those are 2 things that
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Steve Donai: as emerging reps want to get into leadership roles from a behavioral standpoint for their company, they have to be doing things, and then, from a leadership standpoint. You have to be consuming leadership, training one way or another. When I was coming up in the world it was.
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Steve Donai: It was books on CD. I would play and and driving down the road. And now podcasts are way easier and audio books, things like that are way easier.
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Steve Donai: it was actually reading on my lunch break and and things like that, and it consuming 2 or 3 books a month for a decade. It was a way of learning leadership that anyone can do that cost next to nothing.
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Steve Donai: So I say all this to set it up. What do you look for when you see that Rep.
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Steve Donai: who is wanting to interview for these leadership roles? Are there things that you would coach people on saying, Hey, I get a lot of this. But if you just added this to your resume. If I just saw more of this out of this rep.
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Steve Donai: that would that would make my job as a recruiter easier to place you in these roles. But it’s deficient. Currently, does that make sense
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: It does, you know. And and before I answer your question, I think you touched on something a bit earlier that I’ve been able to to comment on, I think, was certainly pretty important.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: Is that a lot of times when reps hold on a second lost my train of thought?
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Steve Donai: All good. It was something I wanted to comment on you. You said about
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: No, no, I’m forgetting.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: I guess we we can resume. But there was something about
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: I can’t even think of it now.
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Steve Donai: Vertical markets. Was it about activities? Was it about
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: It was about
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: I’m going blank. Let’s just get let’s continue. I can’t even think of it now.
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Steve Donai: Back on Chris!
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: So, you know, I think when you look at rep development, and certainly a rep that wants to go that director level role is, you need to emphasize kind of. And I would encourage any any candidate, any any representative that we’re working with. If that’s something that you’re doing highlight it right, you know, especially if you want to go that director route a lot of times you work with reps that just certainly they’re burnt out. They don’t want to do that whole
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: road warrior mentality. They’ve been there, they’ve been successful. They’re ready to take it up a step notch, so I would encourage them as much as much as possible to emphasize that when they’re chatting with a prospective client with an organization that wants to hire a leader a lot of times leaders look to hire other leaders that have been there proven. But a lot of times you’ll be.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: You’ll be lucky to find really good strong operators that haven’t quite
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: been in that position yet, and are ready to take that next move. So what I would tell a rep what I would tell anyone in the business development world. If you’re ready to take that next move, highlight it if you’ve worked and you’ve overseen some of the more junior reps in the field.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: Talk about how you’ve coached them! Talk about how you’ve been out on appointments, and you’ve sat by them on calls or join them on meetings, and really develop those folks. I think it’s important. I think it’s if you’re taking it, and you want to move on to your next point of your career.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: Emphasize it. Obviously, don’t, don’t embellish it. Don’t lie and and say that you have done, if you haven’t but emphasize it on a resume, especially if you’re applying for a director level role
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Steve Donai: Oh, and and I gotta say for outreach. Please put some rankings, or numbers, or metrics or growth not like I can’t tell you how quickly I I have ignored resumes that have nothing to do with their output, I think, for an outreach per person in particular marketing or admissions, knowing those numbers, and and showing that you have pay attention to your actual production.
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Steve Donai: is wildly important for me. I I will ignore resumes in a heartbeat, if they don’t actually show any sort of rankings or production or revenue, because it just shows that they don’t focus on that. And it’s a revenue generating role. You have to focus on that. So at least for me, that that drives me insane what I’m doing. Person, look amazing talk amazing. But like I I don’t see your focus. It’s it’s nuts
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: You know, one of the things you mentioned earlier. That kind of coming back to me now is that you mentioned about some of this training right? When you join a company, and sometimes you join a company, especially as a representative or outreach business development. You’re kind of thrown into the wolves right, and expected to produce right away
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: a lot of times, and what I found successful is rather than our clients that are hiring these folks instead of throwing them in.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: you know. Set up some training. You certainly see it, Steven. I’m sure you back in your days you’ve seen it with some of the larger companies that you’ve worked for. But some of our bigger clients obviously have that capacity to train that person they’re not expected to produce from day one they’re coming in. They’re allowing that ramp up that time to really get acclimated. Understand? What is the product? What are we selling here? What’s different than what I’ve done in the past 4 or 5 years. Right? They’re meeting with
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: the clinical directors, the therapists, the executive directors that they’re representing. So then they can go out there and be highly successful. Where in the past, if they don’t have that training or that acumen of coming in, and all of a sudden expected to sell this very similar product.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: They can now sell a product that sets them apart from some of the other competitors. Some of the other facilities in the area. So I would say, if you’re looking for really good people.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: you know, set some training aside, you know whether that’s taught by a Cmo. Or, you know, one of the the compliance or executive directors in the organization, but having that little training foundation, maybe 2, 3 days a week, I think, certainly will step yourself. Set, set yourself apart than any other company out there.
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Steve Donai: You know, I gotta be honest. That was actually something that I learned in in firsthand in leadership was I had this bias. I would say it was incorrect, but I had a bias. Say that experienced
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Steve Donai: and talented reps, you know.
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Steve Donai: didn’t have much interest in what would be considered more rudimentary training. And I I use that word cautiously, but it’s it might be more like training one on one for a rep at at a uniform rental company or payroll systems. You know, geography, planning or call routing or scripting or closing this, what we consider pretty pretty basic stuff. And
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Steve Donai: I. I had put together a a 2 tiered training program. First, st a program I worked at before where it was tier. One was pretty much all of that more basic stuff like this is the expectations is call planning. This is
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Steve Donai: how how we’re going to do things. And tier 2 was for people where they came back 6 months or so later, more advanced concepts, and
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Steve Donai: and it turned out that that was actually an incredibly desirable
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Steve Donai: thing. When talking to tenured reps. They were excited, especially in behavioral health, that for many of them this was the 1st time they’ve ever actually been trained.
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Steve Donai: You know, they might have worked in the field 10 or 15 years, but they’ve never had a training on on how to properly navigate all these different little nuances of blocking, tackling in the field, and that was that was fascinating to me that what I consider just working in different industries.
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Steve Donai: standard operating procedures was so new and exciting for these outstanding reps, I was able to build a team of really outstanding exceptional people, and then, by doing the training we all had a shared language, shared vision, shared systems and metrics where every person on that team was understanding how you know how we were going to do things. The you know whatever treatment center way. So I think that I think that is A is a really cool.
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Steve Donai: very affordable investment for any program to do is put together a very simple training program.
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Steve Donai: We get called in on that from time to time. Here at grocery up. And I love doing those those projects. Because it’s it’s fun seeing the eyes of people who are passionate about treatment. What they do like get? Why? Because they’re learning these new things and and growing as professionals. So you know, we talked about a players earlier. I think that’s a big, a player attractor
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: Yeah, you know. And and beyond. To be honest, I think it’s a great investment, you know, in your ploy. And and
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: you see the stability. You see the tenure. You know some of the larger clients, some of the clients that have these, you know, systems in play, and will bring on a rep, but then send them to boot camp, or training for the 1st week.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: You’d be surprised how long those reps are still there. You know there’s there’s a few clients that I work with that are that are quite large, so they have the capacity to do your training, and they’ll fly the reps in, and they’ll spend a week on campus. They’ll go through the training.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: and they come out of that
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: motivated, you know, understanding the product a way to really set themselves apart than how they’ve been doing in the past. But then they be. You know, it’s
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: those those reps are loyal, right? They’re motivated to sell. You know some of the reps that I placed 7 8 years ago at this particular company. They’re still there, and they’re thriving. And it’s because they put these initial things in play to make those reps successful, you know, last thing you want to do is hire up, kick them out the door without really any type of collateral or marketing, or maybe they have a business card and they’re expected to sell.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: But you’d be surprised you set a standard. You set a time where you’re going to bring these reps. Invest in your people.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: They’re they’re they are your face of the company. So I think end of the day. If they’re comfortable, once they’re ready, they will, they will show up big time. So I think investing in that is is certainly something that I would recommend
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Steve Donai: Awesome. Well, Joe, let me ask you one more thing before we break here. What’s 1 piece of advice that you would give any owner, operator,
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Steve Donai: anything circle around staffing. So I think that’s pretty broad topic. But we we talked about a bunch of today. So what’s 1 lasting piece of advice that you you would like to leave with any owner operator about building and growing their team
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: Yeah. So you know, and I can answer this in 10 min. But I’ll try and keep it short and sweet is
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: when when I, when I work with a client, especially if it’s a new client that I haven’t worked with is, you know, what? What are you guys doing differently and and a lot of times when I recruit
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: candidates have multiple options, I think right now it’s a candidate driven market. I think there’s multiple options. You’re seeing a lot of people decline roles or accepting counter offers, and won’t go into the risk of that right now. But I think it’s what is the whole package that you’re offering. What is the culture like? I think a lot of candidates that are coming in. They’re looking
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: beyond what’s just your day to day and your compensation. It’s the package. It’s the culture. It’s having that meaningful employee to employer relationship. It is a growth package is, where do we see ourselves in the next 3 to 5 years. What is my growth plan? So
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: I think all in all, it’s having a good competitive package. It’s giving them stability, or at least providing them stability of where they could potentially be the next 3 to 5 years. And what’s set setting yourself apart? Right? You know, there’s 4 or 5 other facilities out there that maybe are doing something similar. But why are we doing things differently and better than my competitor down the street. So I would think, you know, and I try and obtain this and this information when
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: talking with candidates and talking about a potential opportunity. But I would encourage all operators. All, you know, investors, all startups, all existing clients, even ones that are multi-state and have been around for 2030 years, is what are you doing differently than your competitor down the street? You know what are the advantages of working with you, and having that person having your name, your company’s name on their resume. So.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: setting things apart and and really defining what it could look like in the next few years. And of course, setting culture, it’s it’s all about that competitive package, you know. Again, I think now more than ever having that been in kind of an upfront conversation is pretty vital, because it’s a Canada driven market.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: I think that’s really what’s gonna set yourself apart than the other facility on the road.
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Steve Donai: Awesome, appreciate it. So tell everyone where they can find you, and pro health
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: Yeah. So
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: before we got on here, I should have kind of introduced myself. But I started pro health recruitment about well, I’ve been in the industry for about 9, 8 years. Specifically, behavioral health care. Prohealth is, I’m a co-founder of prohealth with my partner, Elon Flexman. We are based in Delray Beach.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: Our focus, Steve, as you know, is
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: 90% focused in on behavioral mental health care. So we work with it all. You know, your mental, health, primary facilities, your adolescent substance abuse we work with, you know, co-occurring substance, use organizations, national basis. We do anything from your clinician therapist master’s level all the way up to your clinical director. A lot of what we do is nurse practitioners, psychiatric nurse practitioners, and then certainly a lot in the outreach business development capacity.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: And then now, more than ever, psychiatrists, medical directors, board, certified addiction, medicine physicians. So anything in that realm is really what we do. I would say the real thing that separates us apart from any other firm out there is, you know, we’re true headhunters, you know. We don’t go out.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: We don’t traditionally post a job and and wait for a resume to come to us. I think if a client is utilizing our services is going to, you know, use us to recruit. That’s something they can do themselves. You know, our our selling point is, we’re really good at what we do. We know how to find good staff.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: and it’s been effective. So you know, if you want to get in touch with me.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: I will.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: Would you want me to just drop my name and phone number there.
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Steve Donai: Yep. Name website Linkedin, the socials. Whatever whatever is easiest for you
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: Zoom.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: So if you’d like to get in touch with me, if you’d like to get in touch with me, my website is prohealthrecruitment.com or Linkedin. You can go to Julian Mckeem, and certainly would like to discuss any type of hiring need or challenge you may have. And same thing goes for you. If you’re a confidential candidate that is just looking for other options and want to see what’s out there certainly would love to have a conversation with you
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Steve Donai: Awesome. Thanks so much, Julian, and if you listen this long, thank you. That’s awesome. I appreciate you for that. Be sure you do all. The cool, like subscribes things depending on what platform you’re checking this out on. If you want to be a part of the podcast reach out to me, grossherpa consulting.com. But if you’re watching this, you probably found a way to find me so. Thanks so much. Appreciate having you, Julian, and thank you all for listening or watching.
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Julian McKean | ProHealth Recruitment: Thanks for your time, Steve
