Inside Behavioral Health Hiring with Jordan Young: The Lead Climb Podcast

The Lead Climb Podcast is back with another insightful episode, this time featuring Jordan Young, CEO of Jordan and Associates Consulting. Hosted by Steve Donai, founder of Growth Sherpa Consulting, this episode dives into the evolving landscape of hiring in behavioral healthcare, the challenges organizations face, and the future of recruitment in the industry.

Who is Jordan Young?

Jordan Young has been a trusted name in behavioral healthcare recruiting for over 14 years. After spending the first eight years of his career at a major treatment center network, Jordan launched Jordan and Associates Consulting, specializing in connecting top-tier talent with treatment centers and service providers. His work focuses on non-clinical, non-entry-level roles, helping organizations build strong leadership teams that drive success.

The Changing Landscape of Behavioral Health Hiring

During the conversation, Jordan shares key insights into how the hiring market has shifted over the last five years. While demand for behavioral health services continues to grow, treatment centers are facing financial pressures, largely due to challenges with insurance reimbursements. As a result, many organizations have cut external recruiting budgets, making it harder to find and retain top talent.

The Impact of Insurance Challenges

One of the most pressing issues in the industry is the impact of insurance reimbursement changes. Jordan discusses how treatment centers are receiving fewer approvals for treatment, shorter lengths of stay, and lower reimbursement rates—all of which contribute to financial strain. Delayed payments from insurance companies have also led many facilities to scale back on external hiring support, despite an increasing need for qualified professionals.

The Need for Therapists and Leadership Roles

While demand for therapists has never been higher, recruiting experienced clinical and leadership staff remains a significant challenge. Jordan highlights how organizations are struggling to fill key positions, from clinical directors to outreach and admissions leaders. He and Steve discuss how some treatment centers have deprioritized senior outreach and business development roles, opting to handle these responsibilities internally rather than hiring seasoned professionals.

What This Means for the Future

Jordan and Steve explore the potential long-term effects of these hiring trends. Without experienced leadership in place, treatment centers may struggle to maintain strong referral networks and optimize patient acquisition. They also discuss how organizations can adapt by refining their hiring strategies, investing in professional development, and exploring creative solutions to recruitment challenges.

Tune In to Learn More

For anyone involved in behavioral health hiring, admissions, or business development, this episode of The Lead Climb Podcast is a must-listen. Jordan Young’s expertise sheds light on the real challenges facing treatment centers today and offers valuable perspectives on navigating the evolving hiring landscape.

Read the Podcast Transcript Below

(May not be 100% Accurate)

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Steve Donai: All right. Well, thanks for joining us today. I have a long time. Friend and colleague Jordan Young, with Jordan and associates, had the pleasure of knowing Jordan for jeez a little over 10 years now. We started working together back in the day of Foundations recovery network. Since then I’ve been able to collaborate on multiple projects multiple hires multiple fantasy football leagues over the years. So Jordan, welcome to the pod. Tell everyone a little bit about yourself.

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Jordan Young: Yeah, thanks, Steve. I appreciate you having me on here.

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Jordan Young: So

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Jordan Young: my name is Jordan Young. I live in Nashville, Tennessee. I’ve worked in the behavioral health care industry. For 14 years.

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Jordan Young: the 1st 8 years that I worked in the industry I worked at that said organization that Steve referenced.

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Jordan Young: It’s a big treatment center organization. We have facilities all over the country doing residential and outpatient treatment, and I worked in a couple of positions that were very high visibility.

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Jordan Young: And what I mean by that was that I interacted with informed relationships, with thousands and thousands of people working in the field across the country, and hundreds of treatment centers across the country.

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Jordan Young: and I left there 6 years ago with the plan to start a consulting business.

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Jordan Young: having no idea what a consultant actually does. But what the market dictated I need to fo focus on because of

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Jordan Young: those prior positions and all the connections that I had was helping people hire and helping people find jobs. So the last 5 years that’s been almost exclusively what I’ve done. And I work with treatment centers and companies that service treatment centers all over the country.

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Jordan Young: and a variety of

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Jordan Young: non entry level. Non-clinical positions.

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Steve Donai: Awesome so. And, Jordan, I’ve been working with you as a recruiter now for 5 years. A lot’s changed in the last 5 years. Right? So I know I’ve seen it from your side. What have you seen change over the last 5 years in space?

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Jordan Young: Well, I’ve seen

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Jordan Young: what I’ve seen most recently is a slowdown.

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Jordan Young: I’ve seen a slowdown in the number of companies that are wishing to outsource their hiring.

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Jordan Young: and

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Jordan Young: I can speak to.

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Jordan Young: I can speak to how

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Jordan Young: things at the top of the industry are causing that. You know. It’s it’s a trickle down of

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Jordan Young: of insurance. You know, it’s it’s not like we have

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Jordan Young: fewer people that are seeking treatment. It’s not like we have

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Jordan Young: fewer treatment centers. It’s not like. There are fewer positions.

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Jordan Young: It’s that

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Jordan Young: people are getting certified less often for treatment when they are approved for treatment. They’re getting fewer days when they are getting

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Jordan Young: approved for days. It’s at a lower rate, and whenever they are being paid they’re being paid much more slowly.

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Jordan Young: and sometimes it’s taken

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Jordan Young: legal action to get these treatment center pays and paid. And that’s a trickle down effect. You look at what people are gonna cut first.st Okay, we’re gonna cut. We’re gonna cut the fat, cut expenses that you know, things that we can do ourselves. So recruiting fees or consulting fees and marketing budgets for conferences and things like that. So that’s what I’ve seen

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Jordan Young: over the last year. And

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Jordan Young: you know even further, what I’ve seen

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Jordan Young: just from the time I started, is there? There’s a huge need for therapists, huge need for therapists, more and more people seeking treatment. They need

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Jordan Young: clinical therapists, clinical directors, primary therapists, A and D counselors

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Jordan Young: to help their treatment centers.

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Jordan Young: you know, treat this flux of patients that they’re getting. And yeah, there’s there’s just not enough people to fill all those needs.

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Steve Donai: Yeah. So let’s talk about Bds, I’ve seen the same thing over the last like, especially year. But for me, I’ve actually seen more on the top end of outreach sales, whatever you want to call it, even admissions and marketing.

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Steve Donai: You still see the indeed and Linkedin post for outreach coordinators like the localized

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Steve Donai: more junior positions. But the the need, or at least the desire for senior leadership, seems to have dried up. I can’t quite put my finger on that. I don’t know if this is a lack of turnover if there is a greater desire for treatment centers, executive leadership, just to say, well, it’s just sales. I’ll oversee it, and I won’t have that experienced leader at the helm, and we’ll we’ll run with it.

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Steve Donai: Have you seen the same thing, and like what’s causing that? Because it it for me, especially in particular. I know when I left jobs in the past as a senior leader within a month I had 6 or 7 offers all across the company to be a senior leader there as well, but now you barely ever see them. What’s causing that.

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Jordan Young: I think I think I’ve from what I’ve seen with a lot of companies that

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Jordan Young: a lot of them are invested in call centers.

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Jordan Young: and you know that

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Jordan Young: that is has been looked in the past as an ugly thing. It it wasn’t looked as an at as an ugly thing, you know, 10 years ago. Then it got this negative, this stigma attached to it. Now it seems like it’s coming back, and

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Jordan Young: what those call centers are doing. You know they’re directing calls to treatment centers. Whether it’s their own facilities I don’t know. If these are, you know, like the

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Jordan Young: certain certain call aggregators in the past that were shipping out calls to various different organizations.

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Jordan Young: But I mean, I’ve I’ve witnessed a lot of

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Jordan Young: treatment centers that say, well, we have our call center doing that. We have our call center. Doing that, we have a call. We have an out of State call center that’s generating referrals for us. And when you have companies that are doing that.

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Jordan Young: you don’t have to be as good at business development.

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Jordan Young: Yeah, you you have to be organized, and you have to know who can play well

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Jordan Young: with one another. But if you’re doing b 2 b business, and it’s just like, Hey, I’m going to give you my Cigna Hmos, and you give me your blue cross. Hmos. It doesn’t take a ton of skill to do that, and so I feel like

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Jordan Young: what I’ve witnessed is witnessed has been some treatment. Centers

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Jordan Young: are looking for people to oversee that rather than

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Jordan Young: build and develop true sales, leaders, true hunters, people that are out knocking on doors, meeting with hospitals and therapists and counselors, and the type of business that isn’t gonna require a referral out to get a referral back in

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Jordan Young: it. You’re, you know, you’re basing

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Jordan Young: your sales presentation on the quality of what you do for the patients, and how you can serve them better

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Jordan Young: rather than

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Jordan Young: I can give you.

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Jordan Young: You know these tricare East?

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Jordan Young: Patients.

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Jordan Young: So I think I think maybe that’s been part of the reason that some of these positions have dried up

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Jordan Young: app.

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Jordan Young: I’m also, you know. Also, I’m seeing that more companies are bringing people from outside of behavioral health care into those roles.

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Steve Donai: That’s true.

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Steve Donai: yeah, in in the call center thing. That’s

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Steve Donai: for me as as a as a leader that’s super concerning cause. You look at it from a lot of ways. First, st

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Steve Donai: it’s a terrible idea to base your whole growth strategy on someone else’s failed. Google searches. And that’s what you’re doing in that strategy right?

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Jordan Young: Yeah.

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Steve Donai: Give me your track here, East. I’ll give you my blues, and you’re hoping their Google searches will land enough track here East that you eat like that. That makes no sense to me as leader. Maybe I’m a control type person where I want to have predictable controllable revenue and growth. Call me nuts.

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Jordan Young: Yeah.

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Steve Donai: That it’s not a plan for success that that’s a tactic at best, but it’s it’s 1 of those where.

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Steve Donai: if your biggest referral sources stop spending money, or they shut their doors.

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Steve Donai: You’re now shutting your doors, and now you have no money. That that to me. That’s why I I have seen a plague. I see that some markets are clearly worse than others for that. I’m not gonna call anyone out on on this, but for sure there’s some markets that are using that strategy, and

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Steve Donai: it feels successful to them. But the other part of that is.

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Steve Donai: we’re not seeing the patient life cycle properly with that right? So like you have John DOE, John DOE Googles, you get sent from one call center to another for detox.

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Steve Donai: and then discharge to another res, and then another partial, then another Iop, then sober living house. And our community goes. Wow! That was 6 admissions.

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Steve Donai: No, it’s 1, John, and we’re not looking at that. So yeah, that that pains me. What I do love, though, is, I love the treatment centers that are very mission driven, and do recognize that.

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Steve Donai: That’s that scenario is not beneficial to who we’re trying to help. You know there are. There are what 2425,000,000. I’m sure it’s even higher now, people who meet medical necessity for treatment, and we’re getting 3 million of them a year. So

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Steve Donai: I’d rather focus on the 21 million 22 million that aren’t getting in. That seems to me like just the smarter strategy. But call me crazy, you know. We’ll we’ll keep, I guess.

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Steve Donai: hiring call centers and you know, I’m sure it drives you crazy, too, as a as a consultant. When people associate you with those consultants where it’s like, Yeah.

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Steve Donai: I’m a consultant. Give me $8,000 a month, and I can’t guarantee 3 admits. But we’ll probably get you 3 admits like.

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Jordan Young: Yeah.

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Steve Donai: Right.

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Jordan Young: Yeah. And in

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Jordan Young: I was forget. I was saying this to someone

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Jordan Young: couple of years ago. You know, what does a consultant do? What a consultant will identify a problem that you have, that they have a solution that they can make it better, but never truly fix, you know, because you never want to truly work yourself out of the job. Right?

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Jordan Young: No, you know no offense to consultants or anything but

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Jordan Young: But go going back to what you were saying about the call centers and admissions, I feel like. So when I 1st started in the industry it was 2,010, and I was the 1st hire for an outbound referral department.

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Jordan Young: So it wasn’t. It was in the call center, but it wasn’t like a call center like

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Jordan Young: you may expect where you’re sending out calls to all these various different

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Jordan Young: treatments and organizations, and I feel like

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Jordan Young: having

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Jordan Young: an admissions department that can supplement your business development team. It’s I think it’s very smart, because what we were doing at that time we were. We had a bunch of phone calls coming in and us being private treatment.

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Jordan Young: your higher end.

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Jordan Young: There are a lot of different

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Jordan Young: people, a lot of different, you know, diagnosis or types of resources that we couldn’t work with. And so we developed an entire team, and our whole goal was to refer people out to other treatment centers that were fit for that patient’s

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Jordan Young: clinical needs

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Jordan Young: their geographic needs. And

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Jordan Young: then after that.

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Jordan Young: if they could be sent to someone that was a good referral partner for us.

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Jordan Young: But it 1st 1st thing is, it had to be a match for the clients, needs their clinical needs, their financial resources, their

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Jordan Young: geographic needs. And then

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Jordan Young: we would say, Okay, well, if

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Jordan Young: if we can check all these boxes, and then we have

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Jordan Young: these 5 facilities, and we work better with this one over this one, this one, this one and this one. We’re going to try to refer to this 1 first, st and I think that with there being the number of options there are for treatment. Now you can do that if you have people that are

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Jordan Young: dedicated to ensuring that we have high quality

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Jordan Young: referral partners that can work well with us.

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Jordan Young: and you know, and it and it can’t be a 1 sided game. And you know you always always have to put the patient’s needs first.st

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Jordan Young: So

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Jordan Young: anyhow, yeah, I mean, I, I see, I see the value in creating b 2 b referral relationships. But I don’t think that

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Jordan Young: in 2024 it’s a sustainable business to say, Okay, I’m putting all my eggs in this basket.

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Jordan Young: you know. I I think that that can supplement what you’re doing with business development. And if I and if I can, if I can continue on to that point.

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Jordan Young: there was one of our business development reps when we were doing that. Who, you know, we would have regular calls, and this person was in the Atlanta market.

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Jordan Young: and she identified

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Jordan Young: a couple of hospitals that you know we’re really good for certain types of patients that we couldn’t treat because of the way their insurance viewed our treatment versus what it would approve. And so she came to us and said, Hey, this is a you know. These are 2 really good hospitals in Georgia that can do very well with

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Jordan Young: this type of patient. With

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Jordan Young: these clinical needs

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Jordan Young: and these financial resources. And so we started sending some of the patients there, and I mean, and they were a good fit. They were getting people into treatment. And then

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Jordan Young: that facility, that hospital started referring people back to our organization.

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Jordan Young: you know. And it was it was because

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Jordan Young: she strategically said.

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Jordan Young: Oh, okay, you serve these patients. Well, we’re actually, we actually receive a lot of calls from those patients. Let me see if I can connect you with my call center.

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Steve Donai: Yeah. So let’s say, a treatment center comes up comes to you and says, Okay, we want to do this the right way. Right? So

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Steve Donai: we get that our market has this

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Steve Donai: atmosphere, cigna, horse trading behavior. We don’t want to do that. We want to do the the good behavior you’ve hired hundreds of people you’ve gotten but thousands of interviews. I can’t imagine how many interviews you’ve done the last 5 years.

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Steve Donai: Who would you start them with. Is it a altruistic sales? Rep with initiative like that? Is it a sales leader that says, Hey.

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Steve Donai: we need to rally the entire organization around this behavior change. And this is how we’re going to do it like, what advice would you give a owner of a treatment center who wants to do this, who is realize this is a longer term strategic plan, but doesn’t know who to start with.

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Jordan Young: I think that well, the the 1st conversation that I would have with this individual it’s it’s the conversation I have with

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Jordan Young: any potential client I have that wants to hire business. But say, okay, so what are you looking for? Or like? Well, you know, I want someone to come in

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Jordan Young: to elevate our brand, or I want someone to come in, you know, with the book of business right?

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Jordan Young: And I make sure to. You know I I have to understand the organization first, st but I make sure to

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Jordan Young: explain to the owner or the hiring manager that this book of business is just the book of contacts that they created when they were working at another organization. And even if this person referred to them at this facility, that doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re going to refer to them at your facility.

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Jordan Young: And even if they do refer, they’re probably not going to refer in the 1st 30, 60, or 90 days what it is. It’s a foot in the door to be able to present about your program and maybe get them out to see it for themselves.

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Jordan Young: So that’s the 1st conversation that I’m going to have with someone. And then I want to find out about their timeline and what their training program is like.

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Jordan Young: yeah, because

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Jordan Young: many organizations want to just drop someone in the Territory and say, All right, go get on, Tiger.

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Jordan Young: you know, in in, in.

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Jordan Young: and that I don’t take clients like, Yeah.

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Steve Donai: Here’s your cell phone. Here’s your business cards.

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Jordan Young: Yeah, yeah.

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Steve Donai: Here’s our our excel spreadsheet, or some basic stuff.

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Jordan Young: Yeah, I mean, and it’s very difficult one to hire someone like that. Because, like, okay, well.

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Jordan Young: why? Why is someone gonna come? Want to join my organization. If you know, like, okay, I’m like you have to buy them.

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Jordan Young: Or or if the company just has an amazing reputation, right? If they have an amazing reputation. Okay, that’s great. But you’re still gonna have to outbid the place that they’re currently at.

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Jordan Young: So if you don’t have some kind of training and support for them

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Jordan Young: unless they’ve been doing it a long time. And unless you’re giving them ample ramp up time, you’re setting them up for failure.

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Jordan Young: Yeah. So

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Jordan Young: for me, I want to find out about the organization’s

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Jordan Young: desires, their goals, their training program, and how much time they give the individual time to ramp up.

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Steve Donai: It’s interesting. I want to come back to the reps perspective in this, too. But it’s interesting. You you bring that up one of the things I noticed. In my time. Leadership is when I mandated those onboarding practices. When I said, this is what we’re gonna do for everybody, whether they came from selling janitorial supplies to 15 years in the field. We’re on the same onboarding process. We’re in the same cohesiveness.

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Steve Donai: You get the same polo, the same yeti, the same business cards, everything is the same. Regardless of experience.

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Steve Donai: I was legitimately expecting some pushback. Right? I I’ve been a sales leader for.

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Steve Donai: Okay, I’m getting old almost 2 and a half decades now. And while in college. So so 2 decades after college, yeah. And and the the more tenured reps would always push back in my experience. But in this space I was blown away, that when I put these training plans together it attracted these really good reps, and I was able to get them for lower salaries

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Steve Donai: for variable comp versus these high salaries. Law treatment centers are trying to throw at reps because they have experience. They were bought in more.

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Steve Donai: and I can’t tell you how many times reps who I really respected in the field, and I was really ecstatic to have on my team would come to me and say.

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Steve Donai: I, I’ve learned a lot. This has been awesome like this is something I’ve never seen before of our industry. I’ve been in the field for 15 years, and no one’s ever taught me how to look at my numbers this way. And so.

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Steve Donai: yeah, I would say for that business owner, you know, as I’m thinking, through the answer to that question, because before, when I asked it. My my perspective might have been different, actually, is, if you do start with that leader who has that training program, you’re gonna attract people who want to learn and grow. And isn’t. Isn’t that what you’re like? Organizations should be filled up with people who want to learn and grow? Because then your organization collectively learns and grows my my question interesting, though on the rep side of things.

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Steve Donai: So the reps are now, though interviewing and being asked, how many can get me the 1st 60 days. How many can give me 90 days? And we see these Linkedin profiles or reps that have turnover every 6, 9, 10 months for like 7 years. And

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Steve Donai: when I see that I feel horrible because I know in part that’s a learned behavior.

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Steve Donai: But in part there’s ownership. Right? So how would you coach these reps who are coming to you saying, Jordan, I need a job, and you look at their resume, you say, hey?

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Steve Donai: I don’t know if you’re asking the right things or looking for the right things in treatment centers. How do you guide those folks? Because the problem is twofold right? It’s treatment centers asking for the wrong things, maybe, or not looking for match or just looking for someone with fog, a mirror. It’s the reps, not making sure they’re in a safe place.

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Jordan Young: Yeah. Yeah. And I,

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Jordan Young: I’ve had that conversation with quite a few, quite a few people, as you can imagine, with as much of my business focus on Bd, and knowing as many people as I do in the industry, when people get unhappy with their positions, they’ll reach out.

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Jordan Young: Yeah. So I. I get a lot of people that never actually leave a job that come to me looking for a job. And

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Jordan Young: I mean, I can think of some specific examples of people. I say, Hey.

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Jordan Young: you have to stay somewhere where you’ve been at.

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Jordan Young: You’ve been at 7 different programs over the last 9 years.

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Jordan Young: you know, and and just

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Jordan Young: you’re a great, you know you

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Jordan Young: you’re a nice person. I like you. But looking at it from the hiring managers perspective, why would they take a risk bringing you on board when almost certainly you’re going to be gone within 9 months, you know. And so I’ll tell people, hey, you. You need to

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Jordan Young: find a place that you like that treats you well. That is not one of the places that’s going to get rid of reps

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Jordan Young: like that if they don’t, if they don’t hit their numbers in the 1st 60 days.

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Jordan Young: you know, go to a place that you enjoy that has a good culture, and you need to stay somewhere for at least 3 years.

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Jordan Young: And

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Jordan Young: what

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Jordan Young: Talking about reps when they’re interviewing

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Jordan Young: the potential hiring manager or the potential hiring team, you know, because because it’s also it’s a 2 way interview. You know. I know that you didn’t ask about this, but

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Jordan Young: just like the treatment center or the company is hiring the candidate. The candidate is interviewing

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Jordan Young: the hiring manager, the hiring team, the treatment center, the organization.

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Jordan Young: you know. And and I’ve had. I’ve had more people, more organizations that have lost candidates that they tried to hire. So like they’ve they’ve

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Jordan Young: given offers to pay to patients

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Jordan Young: to to candidates that.

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Steve Donai: That that ended back in 2,015.

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Jordan Young: Yeah, yeah. Well, well, we were just talking about call centers.

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Steve Donai: Right. They’re here.

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Steve Donai: Pick up.

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Jordan Young: But but I’ve had more people that have

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Jordan Young: issued offer letters, and people have either declined or accepted, and then

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Jordan Young: accepted another opportunity prior to their actual start date this year than the

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Jordan Young: 4 or 5 years that I’ve been doing this prior combined.

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Jordan Young: And I think that it’s it’s about

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Jordan Young: the hiring managers getting the candidates on board and bought into their vision and their company mission. And you know it’s not just that, hey? I want to go work at Kroger.

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Jordan Young: you know. I want to go. I want to go work for

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Jordan Young: $82,000 a year at Kroger, you know. That’s where I want to go. No, I want to go work alongside this person here, you know, because this is who I’m going to be in the troves of the day to day with. And so I feel like hiring managers and leaders of organizations

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Jordan Young: have to get people that they’re interviewing bought in on their vision, you know not just the company vision, but their individual vision.

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Jordan Young: You’re because

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Jordan Young: you’re choosing a leader that you’re going to go work with. And you know, like

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Jordan Young: what I know, like what you guys do, it’s training, not just companies, but check training individual leaders. And how you can make

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Jordan Young: film

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Jordan Young: want them interview people in a way in which they want to

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Jordan Young: go alongside that person. Not just that organization. So I mean, it’s.

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Jordan Young: you know, it’s it’s choosing wisely.

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Steve Donai: I think you go full circle. What you’re talking about earlier. You know. What have we seen in the industry last 5 years? We’ve seen, you know, didn’t more denials, shorter lengths of stay demanded by insurance.

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Steve Donai: you know, lower reimbursement rates, and what I’ve seen is

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Steve Donai: the 31 flavors of ice cream for our treatment industry turn into 50 flavors of vanilla.

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Steve Donai: Everyone still thinks they have the best vanilla. I mean, there’s vanilla Bean, and I guess there’s other types of vanilla. I don’t. I’m not vanilla Guy, but anyway, everyone has the same different flavors of vanilla, and they think their flavor vanilla is so special. But as the patient, it all looks like vanilla

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Steve Donai: as the employee getting hired, it all looks like vanilla. And so yeah, to your point, like, if I have 4 offers from vanilla out there.

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Steve Donai: I’m gonna take the easiest that pays me the most, and

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Steve Donai: whatever we’ll see what happens right? And that’s

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Steve Donai: that’s, I think, a problem. You know you, one of the recent projects we’re working on, which I’m I’m really passionate about. Love is is a client of ours that

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Steve Donai: we’re redesigning the entire the entire process to be mission vision driven revenue generation. And so we’re focused on the mission and vision 1st and designing. What does that look like? And how does that build your team out?

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Steve Donai: And I’m I’m really passionate about this, because I know when we go launch with this reps are, gonna see?

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Steve Donai: Look at that strawberry.

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Steve Donai: And it’s it’s something different. And it’s something exciting. And it’s something that they can really latch onto passionately, because I don’t think people get this industry

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Steve Donai: by accident. I always tell people like this industry gives you what you need not necessarily what you want. So whether it’s coming in through recovery of your own personal recovery, or through whatever way you found, I found it just because I read a bunch of Hemingway one time, and

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Steve Donai: I got a call by a recruiter 2 weeks later. And it’s it was the right time in my life. Philosophically. Right? But yeah, I think I think that’s probably a a root cause, right? That you

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Steve Donai: you have companies that all kind of look the same to the patients. And Bd reps, and a lot of that passion that we once had like

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Steve Donai: 8, 10 years ago, is waning. The conglomerations are growing, and the reimbursements are going down for the mom and pops. What do you do.

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Jordan Young: Yeah.

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Jordan Young: yeah, it’s I mean, every everything is the same right? I mean, whether whether in reality, whether it’s

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Jordan Young: totally the same experience, but something that I mentioned to you earlier, not not in this video was about the the videos, your treatment centers creating their own videos that will introduce potential patients or potential referral sources to their property, their clinical leadership, and some of the

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Jordan Young: advantages of going through their program. But

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Jordan Young: I mean, all these treatment centers.

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Jordan Young: treatment centers all do the same thing. They use the same same verbiage. You know we do. You know, we have all the same acronyms. You know we do. Cbt and Dbt and Emdr, and we meet the patients where they’re at. And you know, that’s always my favorite one. Because I think, okay, what does that mean? Does that mean you pick them up at the airport? Or you know, what? What does that mean? Like, we’re patient centered. We’re client centered. Okay.

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Jordan Young: But what does that mean? You know, all of all of our treatment plans are individualized, and custom like, really, I mean is, is that is that really the case.

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Jordan Young: every treatment plan is individualized like is, there’s.

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Jordan Young: This is the 1st time that you’ve ever done this treatment plan, you know, in the

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Jordan Young: 7 years and 896 patients that you’ve treated. You’ve never had this same treatment plan for someone.

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Jordan Young: So

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Jordan Young: you know. And and another thing is, you know what different differentiates us is our people. You hear that so frequently? It’s our people. That’s what makes it so different. Like, okay, I mean that that

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Jordan Young: that could be true.

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Jordan Young: But

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Jordan Young: I mean in in reality.

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Jordan Young: if you’re a 12 step program, the 12 steps are the same.

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Jordan Young: you know whether you’re in Minnesota, or Florida, or California, or Arizona, or New Jersey. The 12 steps are the same, or if you’re doing Emdr Francine Shapiro created

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Jordan Young: Emdr, and it’s

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Jordan Young: the same, you know, like, well, when when is it okay to you? Start utilizing it for patients? That’s a different story altogether.

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Jordan Young: But

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Jordan Young: I feel like

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Jordan Young: I feel like, you know. You go back to talking about vanilla ice cream vanilla ice cream is delicious. I’m a vanilla guy.

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Jordan Young: but

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Jordan Young: also vanilla is vanilla. It’s, you know, like, Okay, what am I doing to accentuate

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Jordan Young: to to make my vanilla ice cream more attractive than their vanilla ice cream.

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Steve Donai: And you got those sprinkles on right little chocolate.

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Jordan Young: And cone.

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Steve Donai: Yeah, I’m lactose, intolerant. I need the coconut vanilla like, I can’t do regular vanilla. We can’t do that.

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Steve Donai: So you know, you mentioned the people.

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Steve Donai: I I’ve walked in treatment centers now in 33 different states. I I have seen more, 3 2 ranches with brown leather sofa, so we’re living homes than any

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Steve Donai: on this planet. But I can tell you one thing, I can walk into the treatment center immediately.

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Steve Donai: and and by the people’s expressions, movements, interactions very quickly. Tell the patient experience right? You feel it. You see it. The warmth

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Steve Donai: now, maybe for an outreach rep going on campus isn’t always

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Steve Donai: the the the way of

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Steve Donai: they’re not always feasible. Right? You might always be able to fly across country. I I would recommend it, though, personally, if you’re a rep interview on campus, I probably wouldn’t take a job with a large client if I didn’t actually go to their campus and meet their people at this stage. But if you can’t like, what can? What can your reps, especially your sales managers, that you’re interviewing for treatment center jobs. How can they pick up on that culture early other ways that you’ve recommended to them? And similarly.

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Steve Donai: how do you recommend your treatment centers articulate that culture and their people.

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Steve Donai: so that people are interviewing so that

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Steve Donai: it does jive earlier. We don’t have this turnover, and we get good fits, because really

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Steve Donai: I love seeing great fits for treatment centers like every once in a while I’ll see a new Linkedin post like I’m working here now, and I’m like.

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Steve Donai: yes, finally, like that perfect fit. Thank you for making that work.

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Steve Donai: So how do we make that happen like, how? What, what can the treatment centers do? What can the reps do.

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Jordan Young: I I think that your your point about the patient experience, I think that’s huge.

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Jordan Young: you know, especially, okay. I’m a recovery guy.

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Jordan Young: And I got into the business, took a step back in my career because I’m passionate about recovery. But I’ve never worked at a treatment center. I worked in admissions. And I ran a

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Jordan Young: Behavioral Health Conference series. And I’ve done consulting and recruiting. So actually going on site and visiting the treatment centers. It’s a

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Jordan Young: I mean? It’s it’s an amazing experience for me. I still, I still tell a story today.

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Jordan Young: 6 years, almost 6 years after this tour, and what all unfolded at this one treatment Center House. All this guy who went from being closed off in groups to opening up and forming relationships with the staff and with his fellow clients. So

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Jordan Young: I think, getting your

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Jordan Young: your business development people out to the treatment centers and touring the facilities and sitting sitting in on groups, meeting with the therapist and

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Jordan Young: learning more about the alumni program and their engagement, and not, you know, not just like learning some acronyms and some things to make them

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Jordan Young: dangerous enough to lead a luncheon.

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Jordan Young: I think, you know, I think getting a chance to actually speak with the patients about what their experience is like, and how this treatment experience is different than maybe the 6 or 7 others that they’ve experienced in the past. I think that’s huge. I was. I was touring with a client of mine.

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Jordan Young: In January

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Jordan Young: I was out in California, meeting with their staff cause I’ve

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Jordan Young: worked with them a lot, and

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Jordan Young: while I was touring their facilities. I you know I just stopped and had some conversations with the patients, and their feedback was great. The feedback was great, and you know it. Just

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Jordan Young: it. It made the work that

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Jordan Young: that I’m doing, even though I’m not providing treatment. I’m just helping people get jobs and treatment, or I’m advising on how to lead successful

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Jordan Young: conferences and behavioral health. It still may

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Jordan Young: the work that we do collectively as an industry. It

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Jordan Young: it kind of came back to light for me that like this is why I chose this industry, while, you know, while there’s all the negativity about

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Jordan Young: patients being mistreated in certain organizations or the mergers and acquisitions and facilities getting gobbled up and reducing staff to create a better bottom line margin, and it making the patient experience less than it should be.

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Jordan Young: It was refreshing. It was, it was great. So I would. I would encourage leaders to not only send their business development team out there

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Jordan Young: before they actually get out in the field. Send them out there regularly. It’s like a refresher. That’s because it’s invigorating. It’s great. And whenever you’re out meeting with potential referral sources. It’s great to be able to talk about your clinical director or your clinical staff like, specifically like, yeah, there’s there’s David and Marsha at the Facility and

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Jordan Young: Lubbock, Texas. And you know they’re amazing. I saw them do this at a group, and

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Jordan Young: you know, so

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Jordan Young: I feel like that’s huge.

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Steve Donai: I couldn’t agree more. And and for the treatment center owners watching this like I, I would advocate, bring your reps in minimum Quarterly. I I think it’s and bring their clients with them. Bring tours with them. I always always tell people if I can’t bring my treat, or if I can’t bring people to my treatment center and bring my treatment center to them. Like, we’re gonna find a way to make that campus interact with with the people we work with. I always remember story. It was pretty early in my time. Here in the space

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Steve Donai: I was doing a tour with. I think I have like 9 or 10 accounts with me, and we were walking around.

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Steve Donai: and the lady who did the Ua testing ran out of her her units like, Hi, I’m so and so can I share with you what I do.

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Steve Donai: And we’re like you watch people pee.

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Steve Donai: and so she’s like, it’s more than slack. Let me show you how I do it. And and she

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Steve Donai: she derailed my entire tour. She brought everyone in, and she explained how she doesn’t know anything about recovery or industry when she got the job, but she wanted to know how to make people feel comfortable and respected during this this time. It’s a very small sliver that she can do in their recovery. And so she had. People watch her from different angles as she peed when she 1st got hired

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Steve Donai: right and should learn.

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Steve Donai: and she learned the way to make as most respectful as possible by putting herself in a position of vulnerability. And so a couple of things happen after that. 1st

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Steve Donai: I was floored. I’ve never heard such passion for anyone in our industry. Clinical directors, medical directors. I’ve never heard anyone have themselves that far out there. And I was so astonished.

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Steve Donai: the people with me, of course, were like, Yeah, I’m gonna refer everyone here.

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Steve Donai: But then, a few months later. I’m at those Magiana, little Italy’s networking events, and, as you said earlier, they say, go around the room. Let’s talk about our our different flavors of vanilla. Cbt. Dbt. Emdr. Etna Cigna.

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Steve Donai: I’m the last person that goes.

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Steve Donai: I say, Hey, guys, I want to talk to you about Pee.

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Steve Donai: and told the story, and it completely dismantled the whole room. And because it was so unique I was able to tell the entire story of that treatment centers, culture and people right then and there because of

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Steve Donai: P. And so, yeah, I I love that story. I’ll never forget. I’ll never forget. I’ll never forget. Look on her face. How stoked she was in that moment. It’s just like it’s like a core memory now it’s burned in my brain. But yeah, I think I think that’s 1 of those things when you’re

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Steve Donai: when you’re looking to interview. I’ve actually had that experience during interviews with treatment centers before, too, where I’m walking, and I’m touring their campus. But with like the alumni director, not the CEO. I’m touring it with someone from admissions or a tech. And it’s real. It’s at that point. It’s it’s raw. They haven’t been coached up on how to speak properly or say the right things, and they’re swearing, and they’re vaping, and they’re telling you what’s up and

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Steve Donai: I get it. I’m I’m in right. So I think part of the hiring process, since you know, that’s obviously what what we want to really make sure we have a few tidbits from today on our

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Steve Donai: yeah, bring people in for the interview. And if you don’t have a P moment or a different shade of vanilla.

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Steve Donai: Yeah, like.

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Steve Donai: let’s find it. Let’s let’s get out there and see what it looks like. Right? It’s it’s there, and you’ll get the better reps you. You’ll have better tenure. I think. I wrote an article recently. That shows the difference. An average team of 10 reps

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Steve Donai: in soft costs alone for a treatment center.

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Steve Donai: If they change from 35% turnover per year to 10% is over 2 million dollars the bottom line

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Steve Donai: that is a mouthful to repeat. But

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Steve Donai: that is worth a tour, you know, like that’s that’s worth finding your culture and working with a recruiter and defining at an early age on the early stage of finding that rep and getting after. So I I dig this I get. I get nerdy on that sort of stuff.

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Jordan Young: Yeah. And and I know we’re running

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Jordan Young: out of time here. But just to to your point about the tours and being able to meet with the employees there the actual staff that’s treating patients so

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Jordan Young: mentor of mine, John Southworth, Rip John.

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Jordan Young: He used to say that in in John was an interventionist and a consultant, and whenever he would go on Tours he would say that he would determine how whether or not he was going to refer to a treatment center based upon their bananas.

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Jordan Young: He’s like, what do you mean, John? Like? Well, if they if they have brown, black, spotted bananas.

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Jordan Young: that means that they’re not keeping up with them, and they’re not. They’re not providing

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Jordan Young: good service to their employees if they have nice fresh bananas and fruit, and you know, but bananas is just.

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Jordan Young: It’s it’s just kind of like a metaphor, but it it determines how they’re treating their employees and their staff, because

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Jordan Young: happy, healthy employees are going to treat their patients better and provide better care. And

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Jordan Young: I felt like, like, Oh, yeah, John, so just look for bananas.

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Jordan Young: you know. But but but I think that that’s a symbol of

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Jordan Young: something very, very important. You know the way that you treat your staff, and how much you value them and how much they feel valued. That’s going to impact not only the work that they do, the quality of the work that they do, how much they’re going to be willing to put in some extra effort for you, but also how long they’re going to be willing to stay with you.

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Steve Donai: I’m a baseboard guy is the floorboards. Baseboards, have a little dust

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Steve Donai: that’s a, no-go.

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Jordan Young: Yeah, if.

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Steve Donai: If they can invest their time cleaning the baseboards, everything else is clean, everything else is looked after. Right? So yeah, that’s that’s great advice from from John.

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Steve Donai: So yeah. So let’s leave it with one last one. If you were talking directly to a a trigger center owner, CEO executive director, someone who has to

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Steve Donai: run the ship.

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Steve Donai: They’re looking to grow their team in this environment where people are

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Steve Donai: taking several offers at once, turning them down last minute, if you know, might be untrained, might be used to Job Hobby.

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Steve Donai: What advice would you leave them with to go out tomorrow and revamp the recruiting process to get the right people in the right seats.

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Jordan Young: So.

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Jordan Young: So this is probably not to my advantage, based upon the way

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Jordan Young: recruiters are compensated. But

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Jordan Young: I I would advise them to

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Jordan Young: go less after your

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Jordan Young: bigger name, more experience, higher dollar candidates and focus on developing out a training program to give people ample time to learn the fundamentals, to be successful, because, you know, like you were saying, Steve.

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Jordan Young: talking about

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Jordan Young: reps that were experienced. Even if you are experienced. Training is great.

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Jordan Young: You know I I read stuff that I’ve read all the time, and even though I’ve read it before.

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Jordan Young: it can be a refresher in my mind, I literally have a sales folder with

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Jordan Young: bullet points of notes that I’ve read for like the last 15 years, and I’ll go through that because, even though it’s something that I’ve read before, or I know it doesn’t mean that I’m always implementing it into my day to day. So you know, I would advise them to develop out a training program, 1st training program for coaching, onboarding and continuous coaching

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Jordan Young: throughout. And then

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Jordan Young: look at some people look at bringing in talent that isn’t just specifically

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Jordan Young: recycled business development reps from other treatment centers. Because those people, if you’re taking them from another facility

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Jordan Young: for more money or whatever, there’s a decent chance that they’re going to leave you for another organization. That’s the more shiny object. So look at some people that are coming from either

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Jordan Young: direct care or admissions or alumni backgrounds in behavioral health or similar type of sales backgrounds that are just passionate about recovery. I’ve had. I’ve had a couple of clients that have been willing to do this, you know, and you bring those people in. You give them that 1st opportunity. They’re going to run through a brick wall for you.

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Jordan Young: and

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Jordan Young: I mean, I have specific examples of those people within

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Jordan Young: 4 to 6 months, being by far the organization’s biggest producers.

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Jordan Young: and you know, and you’re bringing them in at like

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Jordan Young: half or 2 thirds the cost of what it would be to bring in somebody who’s established, who has this book of business, and may have some habits

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Jordan Young: that don’t serve them very well, or don’t, or maybe they serve them well, but they don’t serve the organization very well.

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Steve Donai: That’s great advice. Well, I appreciate you having on having me on today, Jordan.

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Steve Donai: just recut that appreciate you have got appreciate having you on today, Jordan, as always. Great talking to you.

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Steve Donai: I don’t know how else to close this thing. So

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Jordan Young: It was. It was great being on here. I love.

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Jordan Young: I love the opportunity to speak with you about anything, but especially this business development. And you guys are doing amazing things at grocer.

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Steve Donai: bye.